Wednesday, March 5, 2014

New 10G Civic Type-R concept revealed in the Geneva Motor show

By now, most Honda fans would have already read the official Honda press release and also saw the videos and admired the photos of the forthcoming new (10G) Honda Civic Type-R. Our news article on this is at

The most important details from Honda's press release are of course the confirmation that the new Civic Type-R will have a new 'Earth Dreams' 2.0l direct injection turbocharged engine delivering at least 280ps and still EURO-6 compliant for emissions. Well those are the official details.

In our news article, right now there is an ongoing debate about whether Honda will continue to use the Torsion beam as the rear suspension. And also that although Honda says at least 280ps, supposedly some UK magazines have already published claims of information from their own insiders that the actually current power is around 300ps and it is steadily increasing. So the suggestion is to expect the new Civic Type-R to have in excess of 300ps. The intention is still to achieve the status of being the fastest FF car in the Nurburgring.


CR-V9 said...

2.0l 4cy DI turbo + hybrid. Since they're already using a 1.6l DI turbo in WTCC it's not new to them.
It's a 4 cylinder instead of a 8 previously but the Hp will be the same or a bit more. Hence the stress on the each cylinder will increase twice. The new challenge is to maintain its strenghth and durability since only 3 engines per car are allowed.
Because of the turbo, its engine response would be a new challenge, to make it rather linear in feels to the drivers and power delivery. They're working hard on engine mappings in the anti-lag system where the rpm of the turbine (turbo) is kept constant when the time of throttle-off and throttle-pedal mapping, etc.

The hybrid system is based on the one used in their SGT300 CR. It is the modified system. The chassis is a regulated one and it's FR based so they're having a hard time setting the better weight balanced layout for their M(id engine)R(ear drive). They haven't got the optimum balance yet.

Aerodynamics (body)
Since the upper body, above 275mm from the ground (about above the center of the wheels) is regulated by the rules there is much they could do with it from the commercial body to better air drag in aerodynamics is limited.
Air coming in under the front is routed out to the sides to create down force. So adjusting that down force is only thing they can do to balance out the car. Down force will be better, stronger than before and air drag will be more than before also. They'd think the cars would run faster at corners but a bit slower in straights than previously. Their worry is it's going to be hard to pass SGT300 cars in straights. The races would look a lot different than before
Lastly, unlike previously, the aerodynamics body parts are not allowed to change according to the race courses. The angles of the rear wings are only things allowed to change or adjust; except at Fuji Speedway where they could use the different aerodynamics packages (parts).

Large carbon composit driving seats will be used that sort of engulfs the driver's whole body. The seat is part of the carbon monocock (chassis?) for higher safety. (I'm not sure)
However this seat is not designed for multiple drivers change that is required in the SGT unlike the DTM where only one driver drives. It usually took 10 seconds to switch the drivers previously when it took 30 some seconds to refuel. Their new worry is it would take a lot longer to change drivers now and longer than refueling. It'd tend to rush to change the drivers thus it would be more prone to human mistakes like to forget to tighten the seat belts. They're currently considering something in regulations to give enough time to change the drivers to ensure better safety.

Driving components
Beside the main chassis that is originally designed for FR layout, there're other parts that are regulated to be common among the teams, such as dampers, brakes. The new brakes are carbon brakes. Since they need to be kept hot to work but it gets too hot at the pit when not running, how to manage the heat is another new challenge to them.

Something like that, sorry I'm bit confused today (as usual), hope you'll understand it.

CR-V9 said...

From Mastumots report

Sorry, I didn't understand what he's trying to say this time.
It seems the most troubling part this year is the new regulation. He said that because of the stricter new regulation in aerodynamics and suspension there is so much they can do to adjust in those areas. So they spend more time developing in drivability (I'm not sure) rather than spending time in setting up the cars.

I'm still not sure that the body parts (aerodynamics & down force) are allowed to change or altered per race. He said the angle of the rear wing is about only thing allowed to change. Different wing is allowed to use only at Fuji Speedway. I'm not sure their body parts are already set in tone for this year.
I'd think regular, ordinary suspension setting is allowed, height, balance weights, etc but I think they do have to use regulated suspension parts but how much of changes they can do? Are there different springs, damper? Can they allowed to choose them?. Also some regulated parts are to be used through in 3-4 races so their durability and reliability become more important.
I'm not sure. Maybe anybody who is familiar with DTM can chime in. Or you'd better get better info some place else.
New carbon breaks take time to warm up, more than one lap they do before the race start. So he worries that there could be mayhems at the first corner after the start because the carbon breaks wouldn't be hot enough. They're working on ways to warm them up faster ... but then I'd think they worry that when they come into pits they might start fires because they get too hot. They're not the open wheels like F1. I'm getting worse and worse in this. Well you get what you paid for.I'll retire soon.

CR-V9 said...

Matsumoto-san report from Okayama International.

He's glad (happy) all his 5 NSX Concept-GT finished the race. I guess, you have to finish the race before you can win it? Well, they got plenty of data from all these cars. He was disappointed his best car only managed the 5th place, WeiderModul #18, though.

Main problem was the cars were jumpy(?). The suspensions resonated(?) with the road surface? thus tires lose their optimum contact sometimes. The cars became unstable in braking or accelerating at the corners. But it seemed some other teams had the similar problems with their cars, too.

Other problem is weight. Because of their MR layout and a hybrid system they have to carry 1090kg while the other teams carry 1020kg. It's 70kg (154lbs) heavier!

CR-V9 said...

Matsumoto-san Report, pre Fuji Speedway.

On March 23rd 24th, there were the mutual testing at the Fuji Speedway. Their, Matsumoto's NSX Concept GTs were 1.6 to 2.3 seconds per lap SLOWER than the other teams. Ouch. (go ahead, Australian pansy. Have your fun, go at it) Here are Matsumoto-san's excuses.

It's still their weight penalty of being MR cars, 70kg heavier. Their cars are slower in acceleration out of the corners.
And it seems they're still having the prancing (damper) problems. Cars are still jumpy? I guess their cars are driving like used Hondas with worn out springs and shocks. Since the dumpers are standard (regulated) parts they'd need to get good at adjusting them.
This is about the tires go up and down, so how they go up and down is important. The geometry of the suspension matters, so he said. They're working hard on the suspension geometry but they only have up to May to do it because the regulation prohibits its change after May. Some aero packages, different from the other races, are allowed at the Fuji so they're testing these, too.

It looks all bad but they're working hard to overcome these obstacles, 70kg weight, prancing, etc, and to better response to Honda fans expectations (hope the fans would still support them despite their struggles now)
Something like that.

I've learned some else. I'm not sure how accurate these are though.
Penalty or handicap weight with wins goes up to 50kg, beyond that they will impose the fuel restriction.
NSX Concept GT should be faster in straight because the hybrid motor will come in to assist at the top end of the engine rpm. But maybe they'd change it because of the 70kg extra weight at the corners if they're allowed to change.
Some sort of restrictor plate is used to slow fueling time to give the drivers enough time to change. But it seemed the drivers were changing very quickly so it may change again.
There were 2 warm-up laps for carbon brakes(400c-1,000c, 700c optimum) without a pace car and a regular one formation lap with the pace car before the start. That's about it.

CR-V9 said...

Matsumoto-san Report from the ground, Fuji Speedway.

4 out of 5 NSX Concept-GTs has retired from the electric problems, overheating problems of some sort.
Matsumoto san was obviously disappointed. The race length was 500km, twice the length of other races. They knew the race was going to be long and tedious so they said they did they could to keep it(?) cool but ... :-( :-( :-(

One of Mugen CR-Z GTs came in 3rd, though.

& Race day.

CR-V9 said...

Matsumoto Report from the ground : post-Fuji Speedway.

(This is hard. This is very hard for me. Matsumoto-san poured his soul out.)
The race ended in a blunt total unconditional defeat. Our 5 NSX Concept-GTs had qualified in 11th to 15th out of the 15 GT500 cars, and in the race 4 out of 5 retired, the last one finished the race but 15 laps behind. There is no excuse. None. There can't be any excuse. We did everything we could to prepare not to end up like this but to no avail in the end. It ended up in a regrettable result. There is nothing but to apologise to our fans who had expected us do better. I am sorry from the bottom of my heart.

There are a couple of reasons for our most devastating defeat. First, the 70kg weight handicap for the MR and hybrid cars because it was discussed (or negotiated or consulted) that a MR and a hybrid are considered advantageous in the race.
However, it has turned out to be very challenging to get the 100% out of the regulated common monocoque chassis which is originally designed for FR cars. Also it is in accordance with DTM regulations and that makes the car with more downforce than we need, thus tend to make the cars perform better at the corners. Then again, the 70kg extra weight makes it harder at the corner (exit speed) as you can imagine.

Having said so, the weight handicap was negotiated upon so it's not fair to complain now. I just wanted to explain that it is one of the reasons why we're struggling with now. (not an excuse) Anyhow we are doing our best to overcome the challenges.

Another challenge is car settings in weight balance, suspension, etc. We haven't learned quite worked it out yet.
We didn't even participated in the testing at Sepang in Malaysia. We were busy finalizing the design and basic layout of the car until the last minute because we realized the new regulation wouldn't allow any changes to the basic of the cars once it's done. But at the end we didn't have enough time to work out the car settings on the ground.

Another problem is overheating. The engine is sitting right behind the driver compartment. There is no room in between in this FR designed monocoque chassis. We could make the air-intake opening bigger if it's a commercial car to ensure enough cooling but in racing cars, bigger the openings the bigger the air drags. We'd want them as small as possible. And there the placements of radiator or intercooler are also regulated so we can't just do so much what we want.
At the Fuji, the engine room got overheated and the overheat-safety program (system) kicked in to shut the throttle system down. That was why the NSX GT the one that stopped by the side and cooled down, the be able to drive it back the pit after the safety system was resetted. This happened to all the 4 cars that retired.
(If someone from Honda racing is reading ... The air coming from the front of the car is routed out to the sides. Is it possible to reroute some of that air into the engine room? Maybe lowers the down force a bit, too? Just a thought)

I'm repeating again but I'm feeling full with regrets not be able to respond to our royal fans who have been supporting us all along. I am sorry from the bottom of my heart.
Anyhow, drastic changes can not be done right now because of the new regulations. For now, we only can work our magic on car settings to better our cars' performances in coming races.
We still continue keep doing our best to develop further and we truly appreciate your royal, uncompromising supports, from the bottom of our hearts.

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